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# OpenAI GPT–6 Astra breaks Enigma message that has resisted solution since 2005

715 points · 428 comments

[Full discussion](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801324>)

[Read original](<https://www.cryptocellar.org/bgac/the-mvueh-break.html>)

Category: [Models & Products](<https://hacksnap.live/?category=models-products>)

## Skept-o-meter & Hotness

Skept\-o\-meter: Low\. Estimated from 10 comments\.

32 comments for the summary\.

Peak rank: \#4

Time in Top 10: 24\.0 hours

Hacksnap ranks recent stories first, then orders each group by points\. Peak rank uses all retained observations\. Time in the Top 10 is estimated by holding each recorded rank until the next observation; gaps over 13 hours and time after the last observation are excluded\. Movement between observations is unknown\.

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The article presents a striking autonomous AI cryptanalysis result, but the sampled discussion is largely skeptical about its novelty and significance, while also debating how much credit belongs to the human director and whether such puzzle\-solving generalizes\.

## The brief

Frode Weierud reports that Carter Leffer asked him to validate a break of German Army Enigma message MVUEH (Nr\. 172, 10 July 1941), which had resisted solution since 2005\. GPT\-6 Astra autonomously selected the message, suspected its plaintext might relate to the previously broken Nr\. 173 SIPVX, built an Enigma simulator and Bombe, and used the repeated place name ROSENOW ROSENOW as a crib to recover the key and plaintext\. The recovered key differed completely from other keys for that day, and the plaintext was almost identical to SIPVX\. Weierud calls the result amazing and notes Astra's logs also show archive research into Bundesarchiv files\.

- GPT\-6 Astra broke MVUEH, an Enigma message from 10 July 1941 that had resisted solution since 2005, after Carter Leffer directed it to try unbroken messages on Crypto Cellar Research\.
- Astra chose MVUEH as promising and suspected its plaintext might be related to Nr\. 173 SIPVX, which Alex Shovkoplyas had broken in 2017\.
- The recovered key was completely different from other 10 July 1941 keys: wheel order 253 instead of 512, with different Stecker and Ringstellung\.
- MVUEH's plaintext is almost identical to SIPVX; the length difference of 82 versus 94 letters is attributed to Bitte being enciphered as Btte and the sender's signature Waschbusch being repeated in SIPVX\.
- The break was complicated by ciphertext transcription errors and a rare left\-hand wheel turnover at the 72nd letter\.
- Astra developed Python and C\+\+ software for an Enigma simulator and Bombe and used ROSENOW ROSENOW as a crib; its logs also reference Bundesarchiv files RS 3\-3/20a and RS 3\-3/63b, though access and the private collection remain unclear\.

## Discussion themes

### Hype versus skill

Several commenters dismissed the achievement as hype or luck rather than skill, questioning the flood of similar AI news and saying it required no imagination; others countered that dumb luck underlies many inventions and that requiring human skill and imagination will leave people permanently bored\.

Sources: [Comment 49801551](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801551>) · [Comment 49801596](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801596>) · [Comment 49801760](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801760>) · [Comment 49801572](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801572>) · [Comment 49801789](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801789>)

### Novelty and generalization

Commenters debated whether LLMs can solve genuinely novel problems or create new encryption, noting private\-key cryptography remains unbroken and models seem better at concrete or repeated problems; replies questioned what counts as novel, with one sarcastically saying anything an AI does is not novel and another arguing novelty is agent\-relative\.

Sources: [Comment 49801580](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801580>) · [Comment 49801634](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801634>) · [Comment 49801662](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801662>) · [Comment 49801705](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801705>) · [Comment 49801803](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801803>) · [Comment 49801756](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801756>) · [Comment 49801864](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801864>)

### Human role and collaboration

The human role was contested: one commenter said the correct framing is a researcher breaking a stubborn message with help from Astra and stressed human\-in\-the\-loop; another rejected 'collaboration' because the human only directed it; a third asked why it is not collaboration if the human was needed\.

Sources: [Comment 49801977](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801977>) · [Comment 49802037](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49802037>) · [Comment 49802113](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49802113>) · [Comment 49802386](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49802386>)

### Technical crib and plaintext

Technical discussion focused on the crib and plaintext: one commenter supplied the decrypted German text and translation; another asked why ROSENOW ROSENOW would be a crib and whether a single ROSENOW would work; a third corrected the place name to Rosenau\.

Sources: [Comment 49801615](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801615>) · [Comment 49802082](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49802082>) · [Comment 49801741](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801741>)

### Broader AI implications

Broader reactions ranged from concern that intelligence is becoming a purchasable product and predictions of sweeping technology unlocks, to skepticism that pattern\-matching puzzles equal intelligence and complaints about poor model\-generated code; another argued AI will change the world but benefits will accrue to a small group\.

Sources: [Comment 49801628](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801628>) · [Comment 49801720](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801720>) · [Comment 49801752](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801752>) · [Comment 49801728](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801728>) · [Comment 49801794](<https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49801794>)

## Sources & coverage

AI-generated summary · 2026\-09\-22T16:01:40\.997082\+00:00

Based on 32 of 32 usable stored comments, selected by depth and branch activity. This is a sample of the discussion. Article text may also be shortened.

Generated using deepseek\-ai/DeepSeek\-V4\.1\-Flash. Check the linked sources for full context.